March 13, 2025
Parenting Teenagers, the Panini Generation & Know Your Kids with Peggy Derivan, Licensed Mental Health Counselor
If you’ve ever wondered if you’re the one keeping your therapist up at night … this one’s for you. Raising a teen - anticipating raising a teen - join us an intimate conversation with the bright and bubbly Peggy Derivan. She’s going to push your process and perspective on raising teens - thank goodness. After all “we’re pretty screwed up, and doing our best” (hey, she said it, and she’s the expert).
While societal norms have taught you that “dreading the teenage years” are the norm - we’re here to debunk that. Well, Peggy is. Ever questioned the old adage that you can’t be friends with your kids? Us too. Guess what - we go there. After all the key qualities of deep friendships and key qualities of relationships. So why wouldn’t we want to be friends with our kids?
From shaving your legs - to the pressure we all felt, to fit in. This conversation brings up some of our own childhood and teenage memories. Trigger time - the “am I a bad mom” convo. How to set boundaries, express yourself - and ensure you’re a mom your kids can look up to, and a mom they maybe even want to be. The role of children in our family has changed drastically in 100 years. We’re the “panini generation” - the single generation to experience both authoritarian style families (from days of old) to children with access and educations, whose feelings and sense of self have a deep rooted value in our familial systems.
And it’s no easy task to transition through all the ways we personally have seen children take a role in the household. Peggy gives us both lots of grace - sage advice - and some extra tools to help us navigate these uncharted waters. A friendly reminder momma, you’re not alone in the mayhem of raising kids …
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Hosted by @raebecca.miller and @jennyfromthe843
00:00 - Meet Peggy Daravan: Mental Health Expert
04:15 - The Beauty of Relationships and Human Stories
10:32 - Mom-Teen Relationships: Beyond the Dread
20:29 - Parenting Decisions: Shaving and Body Autonomy
29:01 - Teen Brain Development and Emotional Growth
40:26 - Setting Healthy Boundaries and Respecting Teens
49:18 - Finding Support and Resources for Parents
WEBVTT
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Um three faces Y'all.
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We're back with a guest.
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I'm so excited we have Peggy Daravan with us today.
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She is a licensed mental health counselor and relationship coach.
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Hi, hi, hi, peggy, I love that our theme is like mental health and having counselors on here, because this is the kind of people we need to surround ourselves with.
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I was going to say you were going to say, because we're thick.
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If the shoe fits, becca, it's so good, though I was just saying the other day that I'm so thankful for this podcast for this exact reason, because I've been on my own counselor whatever journey forever, but the more we love different people and different perspectives, that's been the best.
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That's such a amazing opportunity to talk to people like you, like we're pumped about this.
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Yeah, I could see that being really fun.
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I listened to a lot of therapists too, you know, just like seeing what they're coming up with and how I resonate, or don't you know?
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it's a lot of fun, yeah, and it's all perspective, right.
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And then you get to listen to everyone like us, yeah, all the time that I mean what a trip.
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but like that is the blessing of my life because, like I've had, you know, 20 some odd years of like just meeting people and like having access to their most intimate stories and experiences.
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You know, and I mean that's all the time, all the time it's so life changing because, like I just I don't, when I look at a person, I'm just automatically now I'm like, oh, you know, there's so much more to them, there's so much that's leading to, you know, if they're being an asshole or whatever they're doing.
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You know, and I know, just from going through this for so long, like I know that it doesn't really take that long to get to like the better sweet core of the person.
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Yeah, like the better, sweet core of feeling, yeah, like we're all just pretty, pretty screwed up and doing our best, you know, and exactly yeah, and like everyone wants love, everyone wants to love, you know and there's times I leave therapy, though, and I'm like god, I hope she's gonna be okay, like because of the stuff that I said and I'm like right, no, it's fine.
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It's fine.
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I'm like I hope she has the tools to process my messed up night, like like your therapist should have those tools Like you want.
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Okay, I think you know if you're really not feeling confident about that.
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Ah right, but I bet you she is.
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No, no, no, I just like you know, I think back sometimes about things I've said and I'm like, oh well, that might keep her up tonight, yeah, but at least we're funny, you know what I mean?
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Like I feel like therapy.
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I mean we at least give them a giggle at some point, because that's just who you and I are, because we deflect with humor.
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So it's like, oh, here's my trauma, but I'm going to give you a little knock, knock joke on the way out.
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That's kind.
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Switch the energy for them, right yeah.
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Yeah, okay, so we will.
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Yeah, Tell us about your, what you specialize in and all the things about you.
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Yeah absolutely.
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So yeah, I've been a counselor in private practice here in New York for since my son was like just born, so he he he's 18.
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So I've been doing this for 18 years and and I absolutely love it.
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What I've done in the last year or so is I've just kind of honed in on my own passion about what I've figured out about relationships between people from doing a lot of work with people, and the area that I've really been leaning into is the relationship between moms and their teenagers.
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Because, wow, like there is a lot underneath and a lot outside with the cultural expectations of societal expectations, the pressures of this or that on both of them.
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That really destroys a good relationship.
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And what I know and seen and been helpful to is that if we can keep that relationship strong, like all the other stuff is so much better.
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So yeah, so I created a coaching program since May and doing coaching for moms who have teenagers that are stressing the hell out, you know.
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I love this like.
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I am so excited because, you know, rebecca and I both have daughters and I see the train of coming like the sass is just every day and I keep telling myself I'm like we've created these monsters because they're I mean, my daughter specifically, is like a mini version of me.
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That makes sense, right, but she like has a 43 year old attitude, uh-huh at 10, and I'm like, yeah, right, she doesn't know what you know, right, she doesn't have, like the the vast amount of understanding and experience that you know.
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She is a, she is a 10 year old version.
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Yeah, I mean, I know I call it vast and maybe you're like, no, I don't know that.
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No, I'm like I don't know that, like you're 33 years beyond where she's at, so that's a decent amount more you know.
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Yeah, it's really exciting and you really hit on like the worst part of all this is like people dread, dread, like their kids reaching teenagerhood.
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So that tells me like that's a huge problem for everybody, right?
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Yeah, I mean, they're still your children, they're still people.
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Right, you're still a human, everyone's a human Right.
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And like, like, what the heck is allowing dread to be like the expectation, right and the goal.
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I don't know if it's the goal, but like people just accept it.
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Like it's become the societal norm for sure.
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It's like all the jokes about even like bad marriages, Like there are these like sort of like little niche jokes of like oh teenagers, oh husbands, but I mean don't, I feel like that's because of like oh teenagers, oh husbands, but I mean, don't like that's because of people's like own experience.
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Like I was not.
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I personally hated ages 12.
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I'm gonna be honest with you.
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Like 19, well, it's a different experience.
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It's just a really weird.
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I don't have control of my life, but I'm supposed to be kind of going from kid to grown up per se and you just don't feel like you really belong in either category.
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Correct and you know that, right, you went through this teenage time and you know that you felt that way and yet, in general, not everybody, but we kind of perpetuate that for the next generation, right?
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Yeah, like we just like.
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Oh well, that's how it is, it's going to suck, and you know, I often hear you know it's going to suck and then they're going to come back to you and it'll be great, which not necessarily.
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You know, if it sucks too much, we don't want it to suck Like.
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We feel like rebecca and I try so hard to not put our own shit on our kids.
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We're like, no, we're gonna do all these therapy things and read all these books and study all this stuff, so we don't do that, yeah yeah, we had a situation here this weekend.
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We had a milestone situation.
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I was deciding whether or not I was going to share it, but I was like this is going to decide whether or not like so.
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My two girls are nine and a half and seven and a half.
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One is very light blonde, very light skinned.
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One is they're the same recipe.
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I don't understand what happened here.
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What is very tan?
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They're very Elsa on that, my littlest has been bothering me for probably six months about shaving her legs.
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Oh, has she, Okay, no.
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I'm telling you right now, and so I finally had this moment where I was like am I being honest when I try to convince her every five seconds that she's beautiful without, and then she sees me do it?
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Yeah, that's not hard.
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So we did it this week.
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We did it.
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We ripped the bandaid off.
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I was like we're going to get the tools, we're going to like work together and we literally, and I was like all right, like, and she's so proud of herself right now.
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But I was like I don't feel good telling you things and then imitating a different behavior and like, as much as I want you to be the one to like fuck the patriarchy and like not worry about it or whatever, I'm like I'm literally in my bathroom putting on a full face and like shaving my legs.
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I mean, I was, I was waiting to hear potentially, that you're like I let.
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I'm letting my legs grow, yeah, no.
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I know I had to go one of two ways, right, and I'm like, yeah, and then I was like is it really?
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Like I can tell it's bothering you, and I also didn't want to dismiss it because I didn't want to take away her ability to talk to me about things I didn't want to minimize.
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This kid never makes a fuss about anything, so I'm like it meant something to her makes a fuss about anything, so I'm like it meant something to her, it really did.
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And now she's had like three days of like how nice they like and she's like putting on lotion.
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I'm like I mean, at the end of the day it was so much less than I like, gave it space for Can I ask what do you think like was stopping you from saying yes to that?
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Like she's not old enough Her age and like I was like I don't see the other kids her age with shaved legs.
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I was like what is like seven seat?
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First grade is like really little.
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But then she is like an older first grader.
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She's born like earlier in that year group and then she is we like joke that she's like a godfather.
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I mean she's got some like old school.
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Okay, yeah, she recently won an award at school for self-control.
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Wow, she's like scary under control old school.
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I guess that I mean mentally and with her limbs and like compared to her classmates I was like okay, kind of saw that coming, but like it was really.
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And my oldest was like well, I want to see how it goes.
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Classic old.
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She's like yeah, yeah, we called her and last night and told her that's how big of a deal it was.
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Yeah, yeah, like you know, there are things that we, you know we wouldn't have done ourselves or we didn't have to ourselves.
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But like, what I like is that you really listened to her.
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Like that is the key.
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Like, listen to your kids, get to the why, get to the what, try to understand.
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Right, it's an exploration.
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Like that's the big.
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I tell all my moms, like, be a researcher, be like a detective, just get into the nitty-gritty so you kind of understand what, why this matters, right, well, it's also like this, really intimate experience without.
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I just don't have like a better word.
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So, like I'm not saying that like I'm a perv with my kid, but like I.
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So I like, when I actually ended up getting like an, an electric razor so we ended up cause I had one when I was a kid and it was crappy and I didn't want to set it up oh, I was so frustrated.
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I was like so now I'm remembering a memory I forgot about being frustrated that I wasn't being able to like get this thing nailed down.
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So we got we actually got a men's one for sensitive skin.
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It was 36 bucks, it's amazing.
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However, it's seven and a half years.
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So I actually did have to, after I cut it down, like actually get in there with her and like help her out and get the rest shaved down, and now we're going to just switch to electric.
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I'm like we don't have any permission to use a razor.
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That's crazy, right, but you have this tool now.
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We taught her how to use it.
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She's like really into it.
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I'm like this is the funniest thing I never saw coming this year on my bingo card.
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How great, how great though right, is it a win?
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I was like I don't know, am I making this worse or making this better?
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Well, what?
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What the heck is?
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this Right.
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How do you feel about your relationship with her?
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Oh, we're so close to.
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He was in my bed trying to sleep there last night.
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Like she was like do you think maybe we could just like snuggle until I fall asleep?
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And I was like you don't get good sleep when you lay in my bed, so we can snuggle and then you can sleep in your bed.
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Perfect, you're like perfect, yeah, but because she tosses and turns and I toss and turn and we're both like yeah, exhausted the next morning.
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And then the other right, the other question I you know, I think about here is like what damage is this going to do?
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Like she was like a bro again.
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Right, yeah, and you can offer that to her if this is a pain, because, like, it's cool the first time, but then it gets really annoying.
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So somebody already said to her like you, you're gonna have to do that forever.
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An adult, no, no, you don't.
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And I was like why is that?
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It's kind of like that teenager suck mentality right, like we have all these like same old, same old.
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You know you're going to do that forever.
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I'm like, why are you making this seem like so much gravity?
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Like it's just hair.
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It's a decision.
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She may decide someday that she's like let's do the exact opposite.
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I wouldn't be shocked if she was the one with, like, braided armpit hair or something she's going to do whatever she wants to do, of course, but, like you know, why would you even say that to a kid?
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I?
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don't know, right, but you're onto this, this concept.
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:21.231
So a lot of the work I do with moms is just kind of lift, like letting the small stuff kind of not be such a big deal, right, yeah, and and really leaning into who your kids are.
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Like, my big thing is just you got to know your kids, you know, and often when kids start to become teenagers we kind of based on all those experts, we don't want to know or we think that what they're doing is wrong or bad or whatever Right, and then we stopped knowing them and then they don't want to tell us who they are.
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But when you really know your kid you can make really good decisions with them.
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You can help guide them and be like you know, like you said, like it's fun to snuggle, but we won't sleep.
00:14:53.081 --> 00:15:07.846
And she's like, yeah, true, you know, yeah, you know her, you know that she won't sleep and you won't sleep, and that's not good, right yeah, well, it was just as funny to see my oldest be like I'm gonna wait to see how you guys figure this out.
00:15:07.885 --> 00:15:13.369
Yeah, they're different, so different, yo, so different, but I never want to get to the part where we lose that either.
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Like to your point, I mean, I think that's a scary thing.
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I think definitely, society teaches us to kind of like be prepared to step away from this close relationship you have when they're kids.
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And like both of us, I mean, we have like very loving parents.
00:15:28.833 --> 00:15:48.885
But we grew up in a time where, like I mean we talked about this a few episodes ago my family didn't talk a lot about like relationships or red flags or even like sex, and I do wish I didn't learn all of that in the locker room at 13 yeah, and now it's online like whoa right, what is?
00:15:48.926 --> 00:15:53.201
coming like yeah, dang, you really let like lisa botrick give me the full education.
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Like all right, yeah, right, there you go, yeah but I mean I'd rather like it come from me than anybody else.
00:16:00.004 --> 00:16:03.873
Always so, like, and so it almost like.
00:16:03.873 --> 00:16:10.168
So one of our things is we talk about like testicles and so excellent, I'm like.
00:16:10.168 --> 00:16:21.964
I told clark, I'm like at some point you're probably going to hear boys talk about their balls, and I said so, I want to let you know that's what this is, and so you know it's like a joke now in our house.
00:16:21.964 --> 00:16:26.861
So I feel like it, almost like it's detaching the stigma of this stuff that we couldn't talk.
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I know I couldn't talk about that in my house when I was younger.
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Are you kidding me?
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I would have died Because I just don't want it to be so like.
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Oh well, let's not talk about those things.
00:16:38.763 --> 00:16:41.607
It's like, no, like, this is what you know.
00:16:41.607 --> 00:16:48.626
When I told you about what our bodies do like, yeah, you have a queef that's a little toot out of your woman hole.
00:16:48.626 --> 00:16:59.222
Like you know, I don't want her to be so it just I just don't want to be the kind of mom who doesn't talk about stuff and then she has to find out from her friends, of course right.
00:16:59.725 --> 00:17:01.548
So that that's leaning into relationship.
00:17:01.548 --> 00:17:16.369
You know that's like we are and like really seeing your kids, no matter what age they are, like they're still a human and we are still humans, right, when we get caught up in, I was like the mom, I have to be that person, right, yeah.
00:17:16.410 --> 00:17:27.423
You know, and I'm goofy and weird and I'll, I'll talk about queefing.
00:17:27.423 --> 00:17:28.767
I don't care, right.
00:17:28.767 --> 00:17:38.685
So like, why wouldn't I bring that to my own kid at a decent time, right, right, we're not going to bring it up, We'll talk about it at like the dinner table.
00:17:38.786 --> 00:17:39.208
My husband.
00:17:39.208 --> 00:17:39.588
He died.
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.704
If you don't know, peggy, we had a guest on.
00:17:42.704 --> 00:17:44.208
She's an entrepreneur.
00:17:44.208 --> 00:17:46.031
Have you heard the Sarah Wiles episode?
00:17:46.031 --> 00:17:47.294
No, I have not.
00:17:47.294 --> 00:17:50.430
Just to bring it full circle, she's an entrepreneur.
00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:52.667
She was on like six months ago maybe.
00:17:52.667 --> 00:17:55.259
She has a thing that she calls Queefgate.
00:17:55.259 --> 00:18:12.305
She had a very short-lived job as a yoga instructor and this happened in front of a solid group of 30 people who were gathered around her for a pose demonstration Makes sense, oh God, and we will never.
00:18:12.619 --> 00:18:15.670
She talks about like she was like listen, you're going to embarrass yourself.
00:18:15.670 --> 00:18:19.570
If you do anything cool in your life, you are going to have to embarrass yourself first.
00:18:19.570 --> 00:18:21.847
Yeah, and this is like the whole.
00:18:21.847 --> 00:18:24.065
Now, it's just like this is actually funny.
00:18:24.065 --> 00:18:34.210
Like Sarah Wiles ripped the bandaid off of, like actually she's like I had to show back up the next weekend because it was a yoga instructor training and like I had still had 40 more weeks of this crap.
00:18:34.230 --> 00:18:38.703
Yeah, hell, yeah, it's just I wanted to crawl in a hole and die.
00:18:38.703 --> 00:18:39.223
I would have died.
00:18:39.223 --> 00:18:39.885
I would have laughed.
00:18:39.885 --> 00:18:41.147
No, I would have laughed.
00:18:41.147 --> 00:18:42.328
No, she was like.
00:18:42.328 --> 00:18:43.070
She said that.
00:18:43.070 --> 00:18:44.252
I said the only thing you can say.
00:18:44.252 --> 00:18:45.855
I was like oops, oops.
00:18:47.182 --> 00:18:48.272
Sorry about that.
00:18:49.986 --> 00:18:54.724
Things happen, but like we're in the place where I'm like.
00:18:54.724 --> 00:19:01.170
So the other thing that I was just thinking about when you were talking is this there's a lot of thought process around this whole, like make sure you're their mom and not their friend.
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:05.830
Oh, I have this one, oh, and I'm like, why can't my friend?
00:19:05.851 --> 00:19:16.617
go Tell me that, yes, and I'm like that's such an I don't know if that's like an old school mentality or like this, like very command, power, control, whatever.
00:19:16.617 --> 00:19:19.065
But I'm like why can't we be friends?
00:19:19.065 --> 00:19:20.048
I'm friends with my mom.
00:19:20.309 --> 00:19:23.481
I mean think of the wonderful qualities of friendship.
00:19:23.481 --> 00:19:32.673
Do we really not want to have that with the people that we spend the most time with and that we want to be able to influence and trust us and guide?
00:19:32.673 --> 00:19:37.050
Like, if there's no friendship there, why are they going to listen to you?
00:19:37.050 --> 00:19:40.130
Why are they going to want to do anything that you want to do?
00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:45.648
So I always say, like you know, it's not parent versus friend.
00:19:45.648 --> 00:20:01.205
Like that parent is the heading and under being a parent, we absolutely have a friendship with them and we also are in a position to guide them right yeah, by.
00:20:01.205 --> 00:20:07.555
You know what life is bringing and our own value system of you know all that stuff.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.246
But like to remove the friend piece.
00:20:10.246 --> 00:20:18.903
I think the problem is that when people say you can't be their friend, they're acting like they're saying it in response to you can't let them do just anything.
00:20:18.903 --> 00:20:21.131
Right yeah, right Right.
00:20:21.131 --> 00:20:31.287
And like duh, like no, we're not going to like have our kids walk across the street when there's cars coming, like no friend would do that.
00:20:31.287 --> 00:20:59.315
Right yeah, but like friendship, right, friendship is caring about someone wanting good things for them, listening to them, you know, like being a really important part of their life, wanting to be around them, them wanting to be around you, spending quality time doing fun things, getting to know each other's stuff, how we don't want to remove that from a mom relationship.
00:20:59.315 --> 00:20:59.641
That's.
00:20:59.641 --> 00:21:01.367
That's so, so important.
00:21:02.601 --> 00:21:06.851
I feel like the people who say that, though, are typically like dictators with their kids.
00:21:07.231 --> 00:21:09.426
Yeah, I think it's all about control.
00:21:09.426 --> 00:21:12.288
So there's so much about power right.
00:21:12.409 --> 00:21:15.539
Yeah, it's like, well, I want them to grow up and be a good person.
00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:22.913
I'm like, well, I mean, you bossing them around and having these ridiculous expectations is not going to do that.
00:21:22.913 --> 00:21:28.065
Ridiculous expectations are not, is not going to do that.
00:21:28.065 --> 00:21:30.992
Do that, like you know, it's gonna hit the door running at 17 or 18, when they can and be like I'm out.
00:21:31.032 --> 00:21:51.152
Yeah, agreed, I mean, the role of children has changed a lot in the last 100 years, even like so tremendously and like think about it when, like 200 years ago now, little house in the prairie, like everyone's going out and really you need your kids, you need your family, you need each other to freaking survive, like some people.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:22:18.732
Everyone has to milk the cow or sweep, or everyone has a world so you know and you need, like it wasn't as relationship based at all I mean, people loved other but in a way of like we need each other and we're trying to survive the same thing together, you know, and there would be some authoritarian leader, usually the father, right, just heading up that entire experience.
00:22:18.732 --> 00:22:21.500
You know, we.
00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:26.771
You know a lot has happened since then and like children's role has changed.
00:22:26.771 --> 00:22:36.926
It changed from you know over to like we want to protect them more, we want them to be educated, we don't want them to just, you know, jump right into society being little adults.
00:22:36.926 --> 00:22:40.653
You know we kind of did this thing and now.
00:22:41.175 --> 00:22:49.459
So what I find really interesting is, like us, we're in this, I call it the panini generation, not the sandwich generation, because we're smushed.
00:22:49.459 --> 00:22:51.123
Right, we are smushed.
00:22:51.123 --> 00:23:21.413
We are smushed because we have a foot easily in witnessing authoritarian families, right, like, even I know like our kids don't see as much in general in the culture of like the wife just following the husband, right, yeah and right, and that used to be the exact, you know, almost every family was functioning that way, right, so it was easier and I saw that.
00:23:21.413 --> 00:23:24.362
You know, in, in and certainly grant whatever I mean.
00:23:24.362 --> 00:23:26.875
That is not foreign to us, right.
00:23:26.875 --> 00:23:35.721
We witnessed that, we had our hands in it, we lived in that culture and our kids, like, don't have an example of that in general.
00:23:35.721 --> 00:23:41.549
There are some families that choose that and that's their choice, right, right, they don't have that example anymore.
00:23:41.549 --> 00:23:51.633
So when it's like, you need to follow me, right, or you?
00:23:51.653 --> 00:23:54.464
need to do what I say because I say it, they're kind of like what?
00:23:54.464 --> 00:24:03.278
Huh, they really have a different vision for how relationships function and we're in a bit of a crisis because you, we, us, right, we still have our feet in.
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